The Washington Post

Redskins finally win again: NFC East Trash Talk for Week 12

Nov 28, 2011

The Washington Redskins returned to the win column on Sunday, the Cowboys pulled out a Thanksgiving victory, the Giants play the Saints tonight and the Eagles, well, they were on the field against the Patriots on Sunday.

Join Roger Newkirk and Chris Jenkins of TheRootDC and Eagles fan Jimmy Kempski and Giants fan Jennifer LeFevre in a free-wheeling live Q&A today to talk about all of it.

Submit your questions and observations about the games and the state of the NFC East now, and come back at 12:30 p.m. Monday to join in the trash talk ...

"Oh Happy Day!" Finally can look forward to my own dag on chat for once. But happy day it is and vaguely happy I am. The Skins were able to do something they haven't done since the Rams game (yeah all the way back to Week 4 and beginning of October)...get a W. It wasn't the prettiest and honestly at the end of 3rd quarter I thought the game was all but over. Grossman actually showed me something other than what he had already showed me in the first half and early in the 3rd quarter (2 picks that should've never been thrown in that direction). His opening drive he looked like a NFL quarterback and a leader in control of his team. The drove that led to the 20 yard TD run by Helu, was pretty impressive too. I'm not drinking the Kool-aid on that 50 yard hail mary bomb...but I'll take it.

Overall good holiday weekend of football. Wish Miami could've capitalized off 2 turnovers in Dallas' redzone and we would've had a excellent weekend in the NFL. The Eagles were molly-whopped yesterday by Brady and the gang. Look for Drew Brees to torch the secondary of the Midgets tonight. Something tells me Jen is going to be answering to 2 losses this time next Monday. Let the hate begin!

Your friendly neighborhood Cowboys fan here. Not happy about the win on Thurs, but I'll take it. This team has serious holes that have been exposed and are now being replicated by Sunday opponents:  Lack of pass rush, Crispy Newman has re-appeared, etc etc. BUT: Tony Romo, despite his 2 INTs  showed some real heart in the 4th Q, so hoping this  foreshadows good things in the coming weeks. We have Arizona next week, but the Giants game on Dec 11 still looms large...Let's get to it.

I hope everyone had a great Turkey Day! I am stoked for tonight's Giants v. Saints game and absolutely think the Giants can pull it out (more on that later) it certainly was an interesting week for football!


That is all.

How much of the problem with these teams is with coaching? Apparently, Andy Reid's future with the Eagles is in question now. In hockey, the Capitals just fired Boudreau although they're having a decent season. Would any coaching changes really make a difference for any of the NFC East teams?

I think there are problems with coaching. One problem coaches are struggling with is being willing to make changes to their approach when players get injured. They often rely on the way they envisioned running an offense or defense  and when key players are no longer a part of the strategy, they are very reluctant to change anything even though a change may better suit the players that are playing now. I do think shake ups at coaching positions would help. I've said for a while that Kyle Shanahan has to go but the Deadskins win yesterday probably bought him more time. And I am rapidly losing my own patience with Coughlin and Co.  I am surprised there haven't been any big head coach changes yet this season.

It doesn't really make any sense to fire coaches mid-season in the NFL.  There are a few examples here and there where it happens, but it's rare.  Dallas did it last year when the team had pretty much completely quit on Wade Phillips.  They got shellacked by the Packers (45-7, I think?) with the lowlight being Mike Jenkins turning down a tackle attempt on James Jones, who just strolled into the end zone.  That game was the tipping point.


The Eagles game yesterday reminded me a lot of the Dallas-GB game last year, with DeSean Jackson's alligator arms mirroring Mike Jenkins' softness.  Andy Reid has had a much more successful run than Wade Phillips ever had, so there's no way he'll be a goner mid-season.


But it certainly wouldn't surprise me if they let him go at the end of the season.  This Eagles team lacks intellegence, effort, and heart.  That's very much on Andy Reid and Co.

The only coaching change I see coming in the NFC East is in Philadelphia. Andy's time has expired. Regardless of all the things he's achieved there, he hasn't won the most important game and disasterous is a mild word for this years team and what their expectations were. 

Kyle Shanahan needs to go in Washington but everyone knows Mike will never ever allow that so basically we're (Redskins) screwed!

Can we put a nail in the Eagles coffin? They looked awful yesterday. As an aside, is this also the end of the Andy Reid era?

The Eagles are as cooked as the fried bird I had last Thursday. Andy Reid may be the new Vikings or Colts coach next season. LOL He's done in Philly and may need an escort out off city limits. I won't start on the defensive coordinator. I'm sure he has death threats coming in on a daily basis and goes to the games in full bulletproof attire.

I have to admit, I never really count the Eagles out until the last possible moment. After watching them right the ship midseason  during Reid's  tenure, I actually gave them a punchers chance, given how flawed the Cowboys and Giants are. But  after watching yesterday's game, I can now finally sleep easy. Even if both the Cowboys and Giants fall flat, I can't see how this team does anything but limp to the end of the season. DeSean's Jackson's play is embarrassing, the D keeps getting toasted and who knows what's up with Vick. After last week's thrashing of the Giants, I almost got a feeling that they might try to make a run...

I put a nail in the Eagles coffin after the Cardinals debacle.  And yes, I'm giving Reid less than 50/50.

Yeah, they sure are calling for Reid's head. But, although they didn't do as well offensively as they should have, New England can get on an unstoppable roll and they seemed to play like that yesterday. If the Beagles had lost that badly to say, the Dolphins, then I bet Reid would be out. I don't think they'll win enough this year to go anywhere (I think we can all agree that it's between the Cowgirls and Giants now) so they might as well give some kids some experience on-field.

I'm curious to know how Skins fans take this victory. Would you rather have seen a 12 game slide so you can compete for Luck? You guys did show some fight

Not a Skins fan, but I'll chime in anyway. 


For one, there's no way possible the Colts are winning 3 games, so Luck was never in the equation.


Secondly, after the Skins won, I saw debates popping up all over twitter over whether the Skins should have tanked or not.  That's craziness.  I'm not big on the whole "winning leads to more winning" thing when you're a 3 or 4 win team, but I do believe that "losing leads to more losing."  The Rams have drafted in the Top 5 every year for how long now?  Where are they?

I agree with Jim. Losing out for a draft pick is never a good option in the NFL because having the first, second, or third pick in the NFL Draft doesn't mean you are going to get the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best college player. Doesn't ever work out like that and besides Indy will not win 1 game let alone 3 games. No way we were getting Luck without trading Orakpo, Kerrigan and anything else we have of value to Indy along with draft picks. That type of foolishness is the reason we're in a slump now. Play to win, no matter what your record is.

Excellent points made on sports talk radio today about this. You're always better off winning games, even when it's all over but the shouting.  Free agents won't be attracted to your squad, losing creates a negative environment among platers and coaches, and fans get demoralized. It meant a whoooole lot to this Cowboys fan that we won 5 of 8 last year after Wade was fired; gave  us hope that we were going in a positive direction and gave us something to look forward to going forward. Plus it helped that we pulled into a last place tie with the Skins. lol.

Hey, at least the Deadskins are on track to win at least one game every month of the season now! November wasn't a total waste. Every team in the league has some potential, even Indy. They counted so much on Peyton that they didn't have a Plan B for when he wasn't there anymore and were unable to change course. And I also agree Indy will get Luck. I also think that the Deadskins would have a better record if they had Hightower so that's something to think about when looking at players to draft. What are the big weaknesses and how could they be filled. Like with the Beagles, they might as well play some kids now to get them some experience.

Who was our once a month win against back in September, Jen?!?! HAHAHAHA As bad as we stink, we still scored the most points and had our biggest win against who....."ELITE" ELI and YOUR NY MIDGETS!!!

0-2 next 2 games vs Saints and Pack? Or do you pull one out?

I absolutely think the Giants can pull BOTH games out. Tonight against the Saints, they have to be very aggressive on defense and take it to Brees early and often to rattle him. Brees doesn't play well when rattled and we could get him to make some costly turnovers. I also expect the offense to be aggressive as well.


Against the Packers, the Lions demonstrated that you can keep the Packers from scoring a ton of points (at least in the first half). If the Giants defense can hold 'em down, we have a shot because Green Bays defense isn't nearly as good as their offense is. If the defense can keep us in the game, the Giants offense can score against them. I expect that one to be a lot closer than most people expect. At the very least, I see the G-Men winning at least one of these games. I do not expect the Packers to go undefeated so don't be surprised at all if it's the Giants who pull the rug from out under their perfect season so far! said it about right. I think the Saints game is gonna be really good and competitive but the cornerbacks and safetys of the Midgets have nothing coming once they see Green Bay on Sunday. Aaron Rodgers is like a machine out there.  The Midgets are most vulnerable in their secondary and I think Packers can easily put 40 up on the Midgets.

Ok Jen, I appreciate the spunky spirit. But you're delusional. lol. The Pack *wants* to go 16-0. They ain't running from it, like the Colts have over the years. Aaron Rodgers is the perfect QB to neutralize the Giants' pass rush...Quick delivery, mobile out of the pocket, TOO MANY WEAPONS. They have a decent running game. And their secondary creates turnovers. As for the Saints...I can see you winning this game, because the Giants play better when their back is against the wall. But if your  D line doesn’t' show up, like it failed to last week, can you imagine what fun #9 is gonna have back there, picking off receivers while calmly crewing on a toothpick?

0-2.  Giants are in deep doo doo.  Their OL couldn't block Philly last week, and now they're possibly without both offensive tackles?  Will Beatty is definitely out.  David Diehl, maybe the worst starting guard in the league this year, kicks out to LT to protect Eli's blind side, and Kevin Boothe fills in for him at LG.  On the other side, Kareem McKenzie is iffy with a bum toe - I don't even know who would fill in for him if he can't go.  Stacy Andrews?


But if the Packers can put up 40, I think the Giants can put up 47. Yes, the Packers' D can cause a lot of turnovers but that is what they've built their D around and they can also give up points. The Giants offense, if their O line can hold it together, can score a lot of points. And, Bradshaw should be back against the Packers.

Bradshaw is a nice player and all, and absolutely a big upgrade over Jacobs, but that doesn't matter much when the OL can't open up any holes.  Bradshaw is averaging less than 4 yards per carry this season.  Again, less his fault than the OL, but the Giants can't run the ball no matter who's back there.

The deepest of doo-doo, Jim. #Knee-Deep!

[From the producer]

I hate to ask this already guys, but for at least two teams this is a key question -- how does the NFC East do in 2012? Projected record, playoffs or not, etc ... ?

Redskins will go 16-0 and win the Superbowl and Mike Shanahan will get a street and holiday named after him...

That is really hard to answer because injuries are such a huge wild card in any season. I only see Eli getting better with age. but I am not so keen on Coughlin anymore. And I always expect the G-Men to make it to the playoffs! (Yes, I wrote that without laughing).  I think the NFC East will do better next year, if they can learn from 2011 season mistakes, but they won't be on par yet with the AFC North, for example, not yet anyway.

For as easily as teams can rise from the dead in the NFL, I'm not sure the Skins are one of them. If you look at most of the new contenders who were recently dreck, they all have new, younger coaches: The Lions, The Bucs,  The Jets, The Niners, The Pack etc are all led by coaches who are coaching their first teams and are hungry- and their understand the modern NFL better than the previous generation. I'm just not sure Shanny's the guy. Plus they'll probably be breaking in a new QB. So much of this answer depends on the 2012 draft, but as of now, I see 7-9.

For Philly- It's hard to know cuz who knows what gonna happen with Reid. they resign DeSean? Do they get better LBs and O Linemen? They've got great pieces, depends on the supporting cast. 9-7 at least.

I think the Cowboys get better, with Garrett's system and some new talent on the D side helping make them a contender. 10-6 atleast and a play-off run .

Giants. It's so hard to figure this team out. If the Giants miss the playoffs it might be over for Tommy C. If Bradshaw remains healthy, this still remains a good team. But do Osi and Tuck start to slow down soon? The secondary is weak. I'm saying 8-8/maybe 9-7.



I'll just be happy if my team's backup RB doesn't run into the line at the goal line, then throw the ball into the ground... on purpose.

To become a contender, what positions need to be upgraded? In which positions do we lack depth?

[Producers' note: I assume this is about the Redskins, but the same question applies for the Eagles, I'd guess.]

Actually, to our esteemed producer, I personally don't view any of the NFC East teams as legitimate SB contenders, so I'll throw in my two cents for all 4 teams. Top 2 problem areas for each team:

Eagles: LB, S.

Redskins: QB (duh), OL.

Giants: OL (RT/LG), LB.

Cowboys: Interior OL (all three spots), DE.

Redskins: Everything. QB, O-Line, Receivers over 5'5", cornerbacks, AND A FG KICKER!!! dammit man!


Eagles: LB's and Secondary


Midgets: Running back and Secondary


Cowboys: Quarterback (hate, hate, hate); O-Line and Cornerbacks (Shout out to Crispy Newman)

Jimmy you don't think the Iggles need a major upgrade on the O line?

Dallas need secondary help *pointing at you, Crisy Newman*. And Cousin Mike Jenkins needs to stay healthy. With Bruce Carter in the wings, the LB corps is solid. We need more help on the O line. Probably time to draft a back up QB, too.

Skins- QB QB and QB. And someone for him to throw it to. O-line help. 

Giants- Secondary help, O Line help. And of course they're going to draft  pass rushers

Tough season, my dude. How do you show up for this every week?

Right man....I will admit, the play of the Redskins has made Monday's that much harder to stomach. Not only do I have to start the work week all over, but I have to do my chat and hear all these dead @$$ Dallas, NY and Philly fans remind me of how much my team stunk up their television set the day before. Like I didn't see it and tear my living room apart in agony just 24 hours ago!!!  lol But as you must know being a Redskins fan, we live to do it all over the next week/season. If you've been a fan for over 20 years than this is nothing new. You come into the season just "hoping" this will be that year you can talk some smack past the month of September...Clearly this wasn't one of those years...

Roger?!?  Are you serious?  The Redskins were supposed to stink.  What about me, and my team's epic failure?!?!?!?!?

Ha, love these arguments by the way.  Before the season begins, everyone argues "My team is better than yours."  Then sometime around Week 10, people start arguing "My team sucks more than yours."

LOL, Right! I wish a few of my facebook buddies that bleed green would read this. Yesterday I was in arguing sessions with them all day long. For whatever reason they felt the need to point out we are both 4-7 because my team was playing the sorry Seattle Seahawks (who beat the NY Midgets IN NEW YORK may I add... hate hate hate Jen) and they were playing New England. Point I was trying to make is before the season started everyone looked at our game versus Seattle and figured we'd get that win. And they looked at Eagles game vs. New England and figured NE would pull a victory out on the road. Only difference is they figured the Skins would be around where they are now 4-7 but the Eagles were thought to be about 9-2 or 8-3  at the worst. This is the main reason I believe Andy HAS TO GO this year. Too many expectations.

Apparently, the Deadskins have some of the most loyal fans around, desite the, er, challenges they've faced over the last several seasons. Just like th guy who wears his Deadskins jersey the day after a blowout. I admire fans for sticking to it through thick and thin! I think that the occasional glimmers of hope (yesterday's game for example, despite the Deadskins practically trying to hand a win to the Seahawks with the terrible play of th O-line with the kicks), that's what keeps fans coming back.


How Indy fans are doing it, I don't know. Especially since they were spoiled with Peyton for so long.

Who do you guys like? My Giants or the Cowboys to win the NFC East?

As bad as it pains me to say this, I see the Cowboys winning the division now. They've found ways to eek out games at the end that's gonna help big time come end of December when they are adding up wins, division wins, conference wins, etc. The NY Midgets schedule is so tough that I can see them falling to .500 real fast if not worst.......Just a bad year for the NFC East!

Cowboys.  The Saints and Packers are going to give  Dallas some breathing room over the next 7 days.

Ha! Yes, it is between the Cowgirls and Giants now. And while the Cowgirls have a pretty cream puff rest of the season, except for playing the Giants, I think at the very least they split the two games but I think the Giants can take 'em. The Giants will have Bradshaw, anod hopefully others, back by then. It would be crazy, though, to have everything come down to the very last game - at the Meadowlands I might add...

Ok Jen, it's just me and you in the square circle. Riddle me this, please: How exactly is this gonna work for the Midgets? What's the path to a Giants NFC division crown?

I have the Cowboys going 4-1 (or 3-2 at the very least) over the next 5. I have the Giants going 2-3, (with losses to the Cowboys, Saints and Packers). You?

Clearly I have no room to talk, but Chris has a major point. The Midgets schedule is really tough while the Cowboys are coasting now. If Romo keeps throwing picks in his own red zone it may change alot but right now, looks like Dallas has the division in their hands. *crying while cuba swinging*

I see the Giants ending with a 10-6 record. Over the next six games:

Beat the Saints

Loss to the Packers (but I still think we can win)

Loss to Cowgirls in Dallas

Beat Deadskins at home

Beat Jets (technically an away game but still at Meadowlands)

Beat Cowgirls at home.


However, I think either of the two losses I note above could definitely be wins. We'll see!

Wow, Packers and Saints? You think you beat both? I read your answer but it still seems far fetched.

Of course no one aside from Giants fans expect the Giants to beat either of these teams. No one expected us to beat the Patriots either. The Saints are beatable and the Giants have the right kind of defense to rattle Brees so I don't see how beating the Saints seems so far fetched.


The Packers are another story since no one has beaten them yet. Admittedly, I am less confident about this game but I also think that the Giant's offense can get past Green Bay's defense. Like I said before, if our defense can at least keep it manageable, the Giants offense could do the rest.

Yes, the Giants will have to be firing on all pistons to get it done but I think, after reviewing the mistakes from last week, the Giants can right the ship on both sides of the ball and get it done. I absolutely believe we will come out at least 1-1 if not 2-0 over the next two games.

No idea how the Giants are going to cover Colston, Graham, Moore, Henderson, Meachem, Sproles, etc.  Sean Payton is a master at exploiting bad matchups, and great as a story as he may be, Mark Herzlich is going to be Payton's target.  To make matters worse, Payton has had 2 weeks to figure out how to exploit the Giants D.    It could get ugly.

Yeah, what Jimmy said. Plus, if the Giants rush Young Breezy like they rushed Vince Young...(that would be terribly, for those who don't know the answer), then we could see a 30 spot on the board by the end of the half.  I give the the Giants a chance if they scheme their way to getting to #9.

I pray that it's really, really ugly. On PRIMETIME for "Elite" Eli's homecoming....nothing makes my day more than to see the dumb glare Eli gives off while looking clueless, when the Midgets are getting their arses handed to them!


Teams don't always do that well coming off their bye week so I see that as a non-issue. The G-Men play well on the road under pressure. I think one of the problems from last week was lack of preparation and I think they won't make that mistake again and will be completely prepared for whatever the Saints throw at them.  I also think the receivers put imaginary super glue on their hands/gloves. If so many balls weren't dropped last week, the Giants would have won that one, I believe.

Well Jen IS right about the G-men playing well under pressure on the road. But the bye week helps the Saints more having it NOW, given that it's towards the end of the year, methinks. We'll see.

What makes this a season we can salvage? A win over the Cowgirls? Running the table, just to say we did it?

That was the only thing that could salvage the Redskins season and freakin GANO blew it.....Yea I know we got a W yesterday but I'm still not over last week's #FAIL on Gano and D Hall's part. It was our (Redskins fans) Superbowl and they let us usual! 

When we were 1-7 last year, I gotta say beating the Giants was glorious. So a signature win against a rival always helps. Even though I knew we were out of it, beating the Colts and almost beating the Saints on Xmas helped *a little bit*

Yea, why didn't we have this chat last year...I could've had a really fun first half of the season with you CJ!

I actually see the Skins doing well next year. Perhaps 10-6, believing that some of our horses will stay healthy. Someone please confirm this.

Who's the QB?

Good question, Jimmy! I think Kyle Shanahan has to go. Their offense needs to get a lot better, in terms of health and strength. I just don't see either QB being the one to bring them back up. But who? Given recent history, what QB in their right mind would come here unless a ton of $ were thrown at him? With Hightower back alone, I think you improve to 8-8.

Yea, we'll be 10-6 if they switch us and San Francisco in divisions; we get to play the Cardinals, Rams and Seahawks twice a year, and played lets say the Chargers the rest of the 10 games?!?!

Next week will be very, very interesting and I will be looking forward to discussing how the Giants got it done.  You can hate, hate, hate all you want but at the end of the season, it will be the Giants going into the post-season.

That's right Jen, next time we host Trash Talk , the Giants will have had BOTH of their big games completed. (Remember the Pack is coming off a mini-bye- they played on Thanksgiving).  Remember: you can run, but you  can't hide!

Yea we have Rex Ryan and the Jets so...."Back to life....back to reality" Until next week...

First, let me answer the question that was directed to me, and I didn't answer, haha.  Oops, sorry about that.


Anyway... Nothing.  Nothing will salvage this season.  Another beatdown of Dallas would be be fun for a couple hours, and I guess I could point that out to any Dallas fan that tries to talk smack to me.  But that's about as small a consolation as I can imagine.

A first round exit for whoever wins the East would be OK, but that's more damage control than anything.

So yeah, I really have nothing to look forward to, other than the draft.

Let's go Saints, Packers, and Cards!  Hate!

In This Chat
Roger Newkirk
Roger Newkirk is an Information Technology Systems Editor for The Washington Post. Born and raised in the D.C. metropolitan area, he's been a die-hard and loyal Redskins fan through the good and bad for over 25 years.
Chris Jenkins
Chris Jenkins, a staff writer at TheRootDC, has been a Cowboys fan since Superbowl XIII. He's repped Cowboy Nation behind enemy lines for 11 years. Dallas, baby.
Jennifer LeFevre
Jennifer LeFevre, concrete industry professional by day, is a long-time Giants fan who has survived having to hear about the Redskins' trials and tribulations for more than 16 years. A transplant to D.C. from upstate New York (yes, there is a whole other state beyond New York City), she is happy to still be in the NFC East corridor. Go Big Blue!
Jimmy Kempski
Jimmy Kempski is an editor at Bleeding Green Nation, covering the Eagles, and the founder at Blogging the Beast, covering the NFC East. Jimmy was born and raised in South Jersey (Eagles country), but currently resides in North Jersey (Giants country). Jimmy is the proud owner of many fantasy football titles, which unfortunately, makes his trophy case more full than his favorite team.
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