NFC East Trash Talk: Eagles, Giants implode

Oct 10, 2011

There's no Redskins or Cowboys game to talk about today, but losses by the Eagles and Giants made Sunday a pretty good day for both Washington and Dallas.

Here's today's question: Are the Redskins now the favorites to win the NFC East?

Special guest Jimmy Kempski of NFC East blog Blogging the Beast and Philadelphia Eagles blog Bleeding Green Nation will be back with Roger Newkirk and Chris Jenkins of TheRootDC to discuss the two upsets and the current state of the NFC East.

Submit questions and your opinions about the division now.

Related:

Tony Dungy: Redskins look 'better and better' | The Early Lead

Good morning and what a great Sunday in the NFL for the Washington Redskins. You heard me right, on our Bye-Weekend we ended up being the biggest winners in the NFC East, thanks to Michael Vick being "VIC-Timized" for 5 turnovers; and the Salsa-Dancing Victor Cruz paying more attention to his dance routines than actually securing the ball. When all the games were said and done the "Dream-Team" fell (yet again) to a very impressive Buffalo team, while the Midgets of New York lost AT HOME to a Seattle Seahawks team that traveled cross-country and was a 9 1/2 point under-dog. The latter, sealed the #1 spot in the division for the 3-1 Redskins and made this already surprising season even more whacky. It's officially Philly-Week and judging from Andy Reid's same conference speech ("It start's with me and I have to take the blame"") and Michael Vick's 'less-whinning ' contradiction ("I don't think you can blame coaching because at the end of the day they're not on the field), Eagles will be playing out of desperation come Sunday. With our stellar Defense playing at an all-time high and "hopefully" Torrain pounding the ball all game (Please don't let Rex throw 10 balls all game), Eagles should be on their way to 1-5. The games have to be played tho so we shalll see. With all that said, "HOW BOUT THEM #1 REDSKINS!!!!!!"

 

Jenkins here- Get your own motto, pal! lol

If this were Madden, what would you do to fix the Eagles' season?

Hit the reset button.

LOL @ Jimmy! I'd do what I used to do as a kid playing the computer in Madden on Sega and throw the whole system against the wall, and start completely over. System, game, everything!!!

As a Giants fan, I am CONSTANTLY bombarded by friends that say even though Ei has a ring, he does not deserve credit for the team's Super Bowl win. What are your thoughts?

Well my thoughts on that is it's a legitimate argument. I mean the most heroic catch in Superbowl history made by David Tyree on his helmet, would never be "The most heroic catch" had Eli threw a decent pass. And why doesn't Plax get credit for actually scoring the go-ahead TD after the catch he made?!?! I don't think Eli is the worst QB in our division (that would be Romo with Rex being a close second), but I don't think he's an "Elite QB" like analysts and NY Midget loyalists would like one to believe. 

He doesn't deserve NO credit.  He, along with the 52 other guys on the team, went on a great run throughout that postseason, and Eli certainly didn't "mess it up."  As Roger already noted, it took the most ridiculous catch of all time to make it happen. Credit Eli for escaping the sack on that play, but he basically just threw that ball up for grabs and got lucky. People also forget that Eli made a horrible pass on that drive in which Asante Samuel could have iced the game with a pick that went right through his hands.  But I think we all know the defense won that game for the G Men.  If you were a Pats fan before that game, and someone said "The Giants are only going to score 17 points," they would have booked a hotel room for the parade instantly.

 

Eli's a good QB.  Not great. Good.  Right around #10 in the NFL, but not even remotely close to the big boys (Rodgers, Brees, Brady and big bro).  Giants use the "ring" argument to say he's better than clearly more talented QBs.  Ask Giants fans if they think Eli Manning is better than Phillip Rivers, and more than half will say yes, which is ludicrous.

Give the guy credit for leading the team to a SB victory, in which they were a supreme underdog- simple and plain.  True, a circus catch helped lead them to the victory, but Eli- haters tend to forget that there was also the three impressive  road playoff victories on that Superbowl run. So I give the guy credit. QB's get a disproportionate share of the credit and blame as a general rule. But the REAL joke is that he was Superbowl MVP. That was a crock of  league sponsored Manning boys' hype.

Here's what Dan Steinberg of the D.C. Sports Bog said in reply to our question of the week:

"You know, if you ask me who's going to win any division in the wacky, changes-every-year NFL, I would probably take the team that is presently in first. So, yeah, the Redskins are the favorites."

 Rex Grossman's infamous prediction may come true because of the following: The Skins have a creampuff schedule. No Lions. Niners at home. Pats and Jets at home. Carolina on the road. Meanwhile, the 'Boys have the Pats on the road, had the  Lions. Have Tampa Bay. Giants are a bi-polar team, so who knows. It actually gets easier for the Eagles:  Pats at home, Chcago at home. But objectively, I fear the Skins have as good a chance as any to win this sucker. Then they can get bumped in the first round. lol.

That's about as basic an analysis as you can get, and he's right.  I'm certainly not going to say my Eagles are anything remotely close to favorites right now, with that mush of a defense.  Meanwhile, the Cowboys are thin at pretty much thin (no depth) at every position up and down their roster, and the Giants remain absurdly banged up. By default, and by way of the Skins having the clear-cut best D in the NFC East, they're the faves.  Green Bay and New Orleans are going to be licking their chops in the postseason.

This is why I like that Steinberg....he can get his laptop hooked up in News IT by me anyday. :) 

Seriously tho, all the Good Rex/Bad Rex talk can't really  be argued now because Eli, Michael Vick and definitely Tony Romo have choked away games (yeah that's plural) already this season. Rex hasn't been great or even good, but he hasn't lost a game for us YET (knocking REALLY hard on my wooden desk)

Is any of these teams going to win 10 games? They all look like crap so far.

See above, but the Skins can get to 10 because of their Easy-peasy schedule and what's turning out to be a weak division. I do think that both the 'Boys and Giants are still wildcards- Which of those two teams will show up on which week? Cowboys suffer from a tougher schedule than most of the teams. It gets easier a *little* easier from here for the Eagles (except they lost to the Giants at home-so they play them on the road, next) but it might be too late anyway.

If the Skins beat the Eagles this week, 10 is possible for them. If not, I think we may be looking at a craptastic "NFC West style" 9-7 or 8-8 team winning the division.

Right @ Jimmy. This weeks game is big for both the Eagles and Skins,  but also the division. The Eagles lose it's probably the most underachieving team in history and the Skins will probably get to 10 given that cake-schedule we have (#1 easiest I believe). Eagles win and a Cowboy's loss and another Giants loss, and they're right back in the hunt being a half game behind. Whacky is what I'm starting to call this division and this season so far.

An Early Lead post sums up the comments on the Redskins and the NFC East well. Included is this Tony Dungy quote:

They look better and better as you’re watching the favorites, Philadelphia and the Giants, just turn the ball over and give up big plays on defense.

And a lot more negative stuff on the Eagles and Giants. Reactions?

Yep, Dungy is right. You turn the ball over, you lose.  The Eagles are -10 in tornover differential. They're 1-4.  The top 5 teams in the league in turnover differential are the Niners, Lions, Bills, Packers, and Ravens.  Their combined records are 20-3.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but the deficit of good teams in the NFC East may add extra shine to the Skins this year. With all respect due to Jimmy and his great blog, this division is hardly a Beast this year. Obviously, the 'Boys have many a flaw that can't be cured mid-season (limited back -ups and a bi-polar choking QB) the Eagles have dug themselves a hole and the Giants, well they suffer from the same problem as Dallas, just of a slightly different variety.

Listen to Dungy...he's the only commentator on NBC, Fox or ABC that is actually giving the Redskins any props. Everyone else still snickers after saying "The redskins are still leading the NFC East" as if they are waiting for us to implode (and we really can't fault them for it...2 decades and only 2 playoff wins will get you that). WIth that said, each win will earn respect little by little and that's all we can ask for. This year was supposed to be a rebuilding season for us with a 8-8 record being best case scenario. Eagles were handed the Lombardi trophy in August and we all know the Cowbums are "America's" team,  so no one is going to give Washington any props until they slowly but surely earn them. Praise to Dungy for being bold enough to admit  out of the whole whacky NFC East, Redskins are making the least mistakes and that is whats keeping us at the head of the pack. 

How does your NFC East outlook change if the Eagles destroy the Redskins on Sunday?

Well, I guess it depends on what the Giants and Cowboys do next week, but just from a "Skins/Eagles" perspective, even if the Eagles lay a spankdown on the Skins next week, they'll still be 1.5 games behind them. 

Nope. Any Given Sunday, right? I'll only change my opinion on any of these teams when one of teams puts on a serious impressive run

Well that depends on what happens to the Giant's (closest team to the Redskins in the division) in their game against Buffalo. If we lose and they lose, Redskins are still ahead of the pack so this weekend's games are crucial all the way around. I seriously doubt the Eagles destroy the Redskins like last year in Washington tho. They may get a W, but our defense is not having that 35 points in 2 quarters bull this year.

Do you believe the Eagles will bounce back and get a wild-card spot?

I'll answer that in two parts:

 

Do I think the Eagles will bounce back?  Hmmm... "Bounce back."  I don't know if they'll "bounce back," but I do think they'll "improve."  Kinda hard not to improve on the general awfulness they've put on display so far.  "Bounce back" would indicate that this team was at one time good this season, which isn't the case.

 

Do I think they'll get a wild card?  No, I don't.  Their route to the playoffs (unlikely as it is at 1-4), should it occur, would be via the NFC East.

Well, as a long time fan (40+ yrs.) I'll say that it comes down to how Rex Grossman performs and overall team health if Grossman can stay away from the game-changing turnover then the Skins have a chance.The one thing that worries me is the overall team depth; the game this Sunday will go a long way in building team confidence the Eagles are desperate after Sunday's loss to the Bills so they might look at Sunday's game as their season and the Skins will get their best shot.

I just said the same thing. Eagles are desperate...I mean REALLY desperate. If they lose this week and Andy Reid gets up there looking like Peter Griffin from Family Guy talking that "it starts with me" talk he's been saying since they've been choking with Donovan at QB, he may be fired during their bye week. Redskins just need to play that smash-mouth offense and let Torrain punish the Eagles front all first half and wear them down. Defense needs to smell blood like the Bills did early and take every advantage they can. TURNOVERS ARE KEY in this game. If Vick gives us half the turnovers he gave the Bills, we should be A-OK.

I can't see how the Eagles win. They were desperate yesterday...this was the game to get them on a run. Same problems: Vick under pressure, front 7 cream puffs and bizarre play calling from Andy Reid.   Unless they can force some serious TOs against Rex or find a way of  controlling the hounds that is the  Skins' D, they're toast.  Washington will be rested, confident, at home and licking their chops.

@Chris - I can see how the Eagles can win - They're far more talented than the Redskins.  That hasn't meant squadoosh so far this season, obviously, as the Skins have simply played better football. 

 

You know that episode of the Simpsons, where the Japanese Yakuza is fighting the Italian mob outside the Simpsons' house?  Marge urges Homer to go inside so he doesn't get hurt, but Homer is fixated on the one member of the Yakuza that is just standing there calmly with his arms folded.  Homer says something to the effect of, "That guy hasn't done anything, but when he does it's going to be awesome and I don't want to miss it."  That's kind of how I feel about the Eagles right now.  Or maybe I'm kidding myself.

On twitter, @ridgely repsonds to the "Are the Redskins the favorites?" question: 

not if they don't sweep giants or philly, split the rest.

 

They can sweep Philly- and probably will. Having said that,  all they have to do is go 10-6. They can still lose to the Pats, Jets, Giants, SF or Buff and split with Philly and win the division.

Yeah...what Chris said... *checking my temperature*  "Did I just agree with Mr. Cowboy?!?!?!" Ugghhh, Redskins and Cowboys should NEVER have the same Bye Week again....it pains me that I can't hate on Dallas this week.

Another Twitter response, from @dsmeek36:

not with Grossman as the QB, but i'd say it's a crapshoot

I disagree. People forget this Redskins team is a lot like the Ravens in 2000. They let their Defense set the tone, and ran the ball down peoples throats limiting Trent Dilfer's (yeah the analyst on ESPN that knows so much about football and the QB spot, yet was a Rex Grossman to his team and Brian Billick kept him on a short leash all playoffs) touches. Not saying our defense is THAT defense yet, but we're something like them. They're playing with attitude and if we can force more turnovers and turn those into points, "Sky Is The Limit" *B.I.G. Voice*

@Roger - Nooooooo, not the 2000 Ravens analogy!  Bad Roger! (like Bad Rex!)

 

I can kinda see the similarities.  I mean the Skins have a good D and a crappy QB, so I get it.  But the Skins' D isn't in the same hemisphere as the Ravens of 2000.  The 2011 Skins are more like a homeless man's version of the 2000 Ravens (as opposed to a poor man's version).  And the homeless man doesn't even have a shopping cart.

LOL @ Jimmy. I said "something" like them.  We don't have all the pieces in our 3-4 like they had, and Landry is the only player we have that is violent enough to compare to that teams violence. But it's a working progress. Remember that Ravens team was a Wild-card playoff team that played "good-enough" in the regular season to squeak out wins and get into the playoffs. Looking at our division, we may actually get a home game in the playoffs...."Whod've Thunk It?!"

Just face it Jenkins, The Boyz really suck. They blame their performance against the Skins (even though they won) on the Skins trying to confuse the Boyz snap count. What became of that? Nuthin'. Again they just suck like the rest of the other teams in the NFC East.

With the exception of the Eagles (who actually do suck right now) how does a  3-1, a 3-2 and a 2-2 team "suck"?!?!?! With all three teams playing at least 1 division game already and winning one?!?! Your HATE #Sucks! NEXT!

@Roger - I would contend that the Giants are really 2-3.

A'ight, dear reader, sounds like you've got a lot of anger boiling up.lol. Still a little bitter over the 18-16 outcome a few weeks back?

 

@Jimmy Exactly! I'm still pissed refs handed last weeks game to the NY Midgets. Victor Cruz should be responsible for TWO Midget losses....gotta love how Karma comes right back atcha a week later though..... *Salsa dancing on my desk*

Jimmy?? What's up with your boys? So funny that pre-season talk was all about y'all being decent this year. Blah, blah, blah...you all looked so good on paper...too bad that's just on paper. While my beloved Skins were restin this wknd, I got to sit back and watch y'all lose yet again. And don't think any relief is comin for your beloved Eagles!

It was indeed, a perfect weekend for  Skins and Boys fans. It was like counting free cash money on your couch and not having to work for it. Flame outs all around. My poor cousin, another long suffer Iggles fan, wouldn't even return texts. And all I got after each preseason game and Week One was E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles! Now? Ra-di-o silence. lol.

You're mean :(

Rex Grossman.

Cowboys in New England.......should I say 2-3 now?!?!?! The NY Midgets are gonna get creamed by Buffalo as well, so win or lose next Sunday I expect the Redskins to still be #1 by Monday Morning.

I expect an all hands on deck performance after a restful two weeks by those Dallas Cowboys. Austin should be back. Dezzzz Bryant healthy. Romo with a chip on his shoulder.   Rob Ryan looking to avenge his brother, but expect a high scoring game. Dallas 35- NE 31. Boom.

How many fumbles can my secondary expect from Avant next week? Hopefully, Vick is satisfied with getting the Rushging record for a QB and will stay in the pocket and let Landry knock the stuffing out of his receivers. He owe's Desean for the embarrassment he gave LaRon last year on MNF.

It's more about timing than quantity with the Eagles' WR fumbles.  The Eagles receivers know how to fumble with style. They wait until the potential game-winning drive to cough it up.

LOL...this is why I like Jimmy. Like me, a realist and not afraid to call a spade a spade. It seems like the Giants and Cowboys do the same thing. Now if only Mr. Rib Romo could've pulled that in Week 3.....

I've been listening to Philly sports radio on my iPhone. The callers are going berserk, it's absolutely hilarious. At any rate, some are calling for Andy's job. Do you guys think this is knee-jerk reaction, or do they have a legitimate gripe? And Roger, "trash talk" is the perfect name for this chat. Every Monday we get to roll these sorry teams out to the curb for collection. Straight garbage! Braves on the warpath, rest of the division on the wrong path. Fight for old DC!

Glad you cleaned up the original line on that "Fight for old DC" bit. lol.

Thanks a lot. Glad you're enjoying our Monday roasting of these inferior teams (said with swag). Also, I called Andy Reid's firing in the first installment of Trash Talk. I predicted this demise for the Eagles back in preseason. #Nastradamus

Slow day for hate with the Cowboys and Redskins resting comfy and watching their fellow division-mates crumble late in the 4th. Expect a very angry Chirs and Jimmy next week after 2 road thrashings and losing records for both teams. On a perfect Monday, Redskins will be 4-1, with the NY Midgets at 3-3, Dallas falling to 2-3 and the god-awful Nightmare-Team being a fat 1-5 going into the bye. HATE HATE HATE #HTTR!

#Fromtheasheswerise. Dallas 35, NE, 31. Have a great week, Trash Talk fans.

Your teams, despite better records, are all either banged-up, choke artists, or led by Rex Grossman.  If my Eagles never emerge from the funk they're in, it'll be a consolation, albeit a small one, to watch the Packers pummle the NFCE winner by 30 in the playoffs.

 

Worst of luck to you all this week, especially you, Roger.

In This Chat
Roger Newkirk
Roger Newkirk is an Information Technology Systems Editor for The Washington Post. Born and raised in the D.C. metropolitan area, he's been a die-hard and loyal Redskins fan through the good and bad for over 25 years.
Chris Jenkins
Chris Jenkins, a staff writer at TheRootDC, has been a Cowboys fan since Superbowl XIII. He's repped Cowboy Nation behind enemy lines for 11 years. Dallas, baby.
Jimmy Kempski
Jimmy Kempski is an editor at Bleeding Green Nation, covering the Eagles, and the founder at Blogging the Beast, covering the NFC East. Jimmy was born and raised in South Jersey (Eagles country), but currently resides in North Jersey (Giants country). Jimmy is the proud owner of many fantasy football titles, which unfortunately, makes his trophy case more full than his favorite team.
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