The Latest in TV with Lisa de Moraes

Jun 29, 2012

The Post's TV columnist Lisa de Moraes discussed the latest in TV news - on and off the screen.

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Lisa, How is this for a new reality show. A network creates a reality show about the network pilot process? year 1 you see the process. Year 2 you see the show that has this huge built in buzz. It works for Idol!

 

Hi. We're off to a late start today -- Winkie succumbed to the heat this morning and I had to play Florence N....This week's reading material will be published shortly, but let's go ahead and get started.

So, in re your question:

Interesting pitch because I once talked to a book publisher about covering a show from its initial pitch through to completion, and I loved their boyish enthusiasm, but explained there was no way to guarantee the show would actually get picked up,  though with some producers it's a virtual slam dunk, in which case they'd be back to square one, unless they wanted to publish a book about a show that did not get greenlit... notice how that book never got written...

So, Pookie, can we dump all the character development stuff and make it just a fantasy show about how important new events past could have been properly covered? Because I don't care that the older characters used to sleep with each other. And I don't care that the young intern is pining after a mean guy when there are all sorts of other hot, smart guys she could pick from. And I don't care that the anchor is a sell out and a jerk. I don't care about any of it. I do sort of like the idea that if just one person in the newroom had perfect contacts in exactly the right companies that we could have figured out that the Gulf oil spill was a big deal a lot earlier. And I like dreaming that a good interviewer with competent back up staff could get a guy in a regulatory agency to fess up to having almost no experience on live TV. I figure that depending on the news story the show would be 20 to 35 minutes each week with all the other stuff eliminated. You can do that on pay cable, right?

I sense you're mocking the pilot episode, but I'm not buying what you're selling, pookie. I've decided I'm a fan of the show... Sorkin's response last night, on Colbert's show, to the many TV critics who blasted it as being "unrealistic" and "preachy" -- you know, the "are we really supposed to believe the BP cover-up got uncovered by this rag-tag team in about 30 minutes? --  was along the lines of "yeah, and high school experience was just like 'Glee' (speaking of 'preachy')...it would be fun to comb The Reporters Who Cover Television who slammed this show for being "unrealistic" who gushed over "Glee."...and, such a shame more critics didn't think  that, what with journalists' standing in this country being only  slightly higher than politicians, maybe an idealized, romanticized show about journalism (Sorkin's description) in which the press is played as heroic, is maybe a good thing.... see, now I'm being preachy -- it's contagious!

Seems like a good fit so far -- heard any rumblings of ego tripping or dipping?

Not at all. The only thing I've noticed is that Stern of soemthing of a sentimentalist, and not the staunch "truth teller" or whatever he said he would be were he ever hired to be a judge on one of these shows. I thought it was really sweet when he let that little person go through to Vegas, even though the guy was awful, because it was the man's dream to play Vegas.  I shed a tear at Stern cast the deciding vote to send the gentleman to Vegas... It was like Stern was Clarence, his guardian angel...

The local NBC station, WRC-Channel 4, announced on its afternoon newscast that right after the break, they'd have the story of Ann Curry's tearful departure from the Today Show. Then they cut to an ad for their news, featuring none other than Ann Curry and Matt Lauer standing with the WRC anchors -- Ann right next to them, Matt next to her -- and I think it was a smiling Ann Curry herself who said something like "we're your morning news team" so be sure to watch "us." I was so busy doing a spit-take, I'm not sure.

I'm sorry I missed that! Meanwhile, am I the only one today playing Curry/Conan Compare and Contrast? Here's how it shakes out:

-Loyal longtime NBC employee with very loyal fans

-Finally gets his/her big chance at iconic NBC franchise

-Ratings not so good.

-Network decides to make a change. Offers employee some other gig.

-One makes her unhappiness clear in her departure speech, but otherwise takes the high road

-One writes a Letter to America (or was it The World) and goes on a tear, making bad decision,  to move to cable, nukes his career

 

 

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Last week's discussion had a lot of back-and-forth on the dismal ratings for the Tonys. But the audience tends to be closer to the one percent than we rank and file folks. That's why CBS keeps it--they sell ads for scotch, not beer; for Cadillacs, not Volkswagens.

They can't sell scotch in primetime... among the many shackles broadcast networks are stuck with that cable networks are not... but I take your point. It's very highbrow audience.. CBS also continues to do the show because it means its New York execs get good tickets to any show they want at any time all year. I'd do same if I ran CBS!And, of course, it's not just about the rating and ad rates -- it's about how much CBS has to pay for the license fee. I'm just guessing it's a real bargain compared to, say the Grammys, or the Oscars...

I am firmly on record as disliking Ann Curry's interviewing style (she's really awful), her compassion overflow, her too smooth voice--she used to confuse herself with all her thank you's and good mornings, but the way NBC made that change made me feel sorry for her, and a little guilty for disliking her which is ridiculous since she wasn't good in that role. How bout you?

Same here! I found her super-earnest interview style -- talking to even people who were just plugging a new book like they'd just been wounded by shrapnel -- to be offputting. On the other hand, I love her voice -- it's gorgeous, as is she. The only problem here is that Curry was miscast in the role -- like asking James Franco to play Hamlet. America wants a "cutie" who can do girlish banter with Matt Lauer on this show and Ann wasn't any good at it. You know, like how some people are really good at small talk at cocktail parties, and others are not? Like that... Katie Couric was brilliant at it and Meredith had the knack too...Curry is better cast in her new role... You can understand why NBC felt that, after passing her over once to give the job to Meredith, and after he'd been news reader for 15 years-ish, they owed her a shot.. It didn't work out.. She's got a new longterm contract, making more than many of us will see in a career, and will be just fine, though I'm sure she's sore now and watching her yesterday on "Today" was sad. Except when she dodged Matt Lauer's attempt to kiss her on the cheek and he wound up getting a mouthful of her beautfiul hair. That was brilliant...

You know, if CNN and Fox would just have waited to get to page 4 of the Supreme Court ruling yesterday, they would have been able to report the outcome correctly. Is that so hard?

It is when you're racing to "be first." Meanwhile: News Flash: NBC has announced officially that Savannah Guthrie is replacing Ann Curry -- duh... Though she was doing the job today on the show, her "official" start date is July 9. She will remain the news division's chief legal correspondent...

Okay, four episodes in, and they're starting to lose me. Not enough Bobby.

The old folks look embalmed on this show. It's like going to your high school reunion and seeing how fat and bald everyone's gotten...

Should she have let Matt Lauer kiss her cheek? Should he have known better? As you always say, we shouldn't feel sorry with someone with that much money but, should we? That kiss thing was uncomfortable for me in my own house.

Absolutely not. A woman has the right to decide who gets to kiss her cheek...why should she grant Matt that favor?

Well the NBC suits have managed to screw up their second major franchise now. So when are a couple of suits going to walk the plank? Why put all the blame on just the on-air talent? I'd like to be the fly on the wall if Ann Curry and Conan O'Brien ever get together for a drink.

NBC suits are guilty here of giving Curry the show she so richly deserved for her many years on the show. They clearly were hesitant in re whether she was a good fit, because they'd passed her over once already... They did the right thing and it did not work out, as ratings show. Why don't you blame viewers, who didn't like the chemistry (or lack thereof) between Matt and Ann? It's like casting a drama series, or a comedy. If there's no chemistry, there's no chemistry...

I missed Ann Curry this morning and in her absence realized how much of a balance she brought to Matt's arrogance, Al's goofiness and Savanah's often too-sun shiney personality. No GMA for me since I'm boycotting ABC for cancelling two of my favorite soaps so I guess I'll give the CBS morning show a try. Although the prevailing theory was that Ann was what led to the rating's decline any evidence for this? Do you think NBC and the Today Show will experience any viewer backlash, other than mine?

NBC clearly feels the number of loyal Ann fans who will stay away from the show is smaller than the number of Today fans who have left the show because they didn't find the Matt/Ann casting to be what they wanted to see in the morning...

Hi Lisa, Is it just me, or has this summer been particularly brutal for programming? While it's great that "Louie" is back, and "Breaking Bad" is a couple of weeks away, the networks have really not been doing great in terms of programming. My local ABC and CBS affiliates seem to be playing more and more alternative, local programming (telethons, special events) and old movies- it's like we're back to the 80's, when we had to wait until Sept. for new programming to come on. What gives?

Have you not seen the wealth of original programming being offered on cable networks this summer?

Since reports indicate Ann Curry and NBC had a dispute over paying out the remainder of her contract, do you think they are offering a shorter-term contract to Guthrie?

Ann accepted a new long-term contract to become a national and international reporter, and get the glam title "anchor at large" at NBC News... She did just fine... And no I don't think Guthrie suffered in her contract negotiations... I have a hard time getting worked up over these people's contracts on their behalf, given how much they make...

I have the pilot episode lurking in my DVR. Is it worth the space on the hard drive to check it out, or should I do myself a favor and hit delete?

You HAVE to watch it.. It's a train wreck of epic proportions...

Even though Curry's demise as Today co-anchor had been widely predicted, NBC still managed to handle it in an exceedingly graceless manner. Not a big fan of Curry, but I thought she deserved a more graceful farewell than she received. As my grandma said, "Were you people raised in a barn?"

Did you want them to give her a flash mob like Meredith? It was going to be awkward no matter what... The only thing they should have done was spare her the uncomfortable couch scene. Golly, Al Roker was sitting so far away from her it was like he wanted to be in the next show!

Oh, no! Is he convalesing under the air conditioning vent?

He's at home resting comfortably with Mr. Birdie, his much loved plush-toy companion...thank you for asking.

When Katie Couric left they passed her over in favor of Meredith Viera, so why did they give her the job when Meredith left? Did they think they owed her, or had she spent the last several years accumulating favors, or what? It was immediately clear she was a poor choice.

My guess is they thought they owed it to her and/or thought they'd look like ogres for passing her over again. At any rate, she got her shot and it did not work....viewers did  not like the pairing.. It's all about chemistry.. Had Matt left, she might have survived... He did not and, as I said in my coverage, it was pretty much over for our Ann the day his new deal was announced...

Did you get a chance to check out "The Newsroom" Sunday? As a devoted West Winger who still misses Josh Lyman, I was excited to be back in the land of Sorkin. There have been some rumblings that the pilot is the high point and the wheels start to fall off in a few weeks. After the disaster of "Studio 60" I don't know if I should plan to get invested or is it better to keep those TWW dvds close at hand.

I decided to watch in real time, like "viewers"....

Pookie, much as I am sympathetic with her rushed departure, the bottom line is Ann made me grit my teeth and I was afraid she would leap off the screen and sympathetically put her hand on the arm that was shoveling cereal into my mouth. Maybe I want sincerity in the morning but golly gee whiz, there have to be more people like me than the long time fans.

Clearly a lot of people did not love the interaction... Yes, her interview style is a bit much for the morning...

It's fine to have a magical reality newsroom, but then don't use real events. It would be like creating a fake newspaper and having them figure out the entire Watergate conspiracy the day after the break-in. That's nice, but it didn't happen that way. I know our attention spans are short, but the Gulf oil spill wasn't THAT long ago. Either stick to the basic facts or make up new dramatic stories to cover.

Why? I think it's fun....they do it all the time in the movies....

So her book doesn't sell; his law practice is in the tank, and they decide to make a go of it for the kids. We watch him earnestly try to do good every week, and her plan the wedding--extra bonus episode with the Dave Matthews band planning the song list.

ick, ick, ick. If I never see either again it will be fine with me....

... she was fired. She's lucky she got any time on the air to say her rapt goodbyes to the four people in America that she hasn't annoyed/alienated/lost from the show. If you are forceably separated from your job, and they going to let you do a crying lap around the newsroom? Of course not - they will have a security guard give you five minutes to get your crap out. She could have been dignified and left when she was fired, instead she turned it into a naracisstic freak show. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE TODAY SHOW PRODUCERS WANTED. Way to feed into their plans, lady.

It was great TV, I have to admit, that "For all of you who saw me as a groundbreaker, I'm sorry that I couldn't carry the ball over hte finish line" line she delivered. I am still mulling Ann suggesting on national TV that she was a groundbreaker....

I can't believe anyone watches those network morning shows in the first place. Who is the target audience for these things? Obviously not me. I really don't care about the "stories" that are staples of what they cover.

You mean like today's feature in which we were shown how to make Christmas ornaments into July 4 ornaments, and how to put fringe on the pockets of our blue jean shorts to make them look patriotic for the holiday? And who can forget the report on curring pound cake into cubes to make kabob's with strawberries, melted white chocolate chips and blueberries, or flag sandwiches out of white bread, rasperry jam and blueberries... I feel so well informed after watching today's "Today" show...

When Matt was renegotiating his contract, NBC should have said, thanks, but no thanks (to both him & Ann. Savannah & Chuck Todd have amazing on-screen chemistry and I would wake up for them. They both seems to know how to have fun, but also have the chops & gravitas to do the serious stuff. The segment they did together about the Karaoke cab in DC was one of the funniest things ever!

They weren't going to willingly lose Matt when he was half of the Dream Team from the good old days, when the show clocked about 2.5 million more viewers than ABC's "Good Morning America." I was watching carefully -- too carefully -- to see what kind of chemistry Matt had with Savannah this morning. My initial reaction is "not as much as Natalie has"....

Do you believe the Ann Curry was the problem with Today? Is Savannah truly the answer?

Well, you could argue that Matt was the problem, since the problem was their lack of chemistry because of her inability to do the kind of girlish banter he thrives on.... I'm not sure if Savannah's the answer....

Can we talk about this here?

You betcha! Are we for it or against it.. Do we want him to be interviewed by Oprah to discuss it and jump up and down on a sofa a bit. You can bet he's going to give his first post-divorce interview to O....can't wait...

You wrote: "America wants a "cutie" who can do girlish banter with Matt Lauer on this show and Ann wasn't any good at it." ... should that not have been "... with Matt Lauer on HIS show ..."?

No, but it would have worked too...

“For all of you who saw me as a groundbreaker, I’m sorry I couldn’t carry the ball over the finish line, but, man, I did try!”\ Uhh, what was Ann groundbreaking? Reporters willing to do anytihing like jump off a bridge to try to keep their job? News readers who say "Good Morning, Good Morning, Good Morning, Good Morning, " way too much? It's probably the most high-profile role on National TV on the network's most profitable show and if you succeed you get millions of dollars. But failure can be due to factors beyond your control (like a drunk Kathie Lee Gifford).. Didn't the Deborah Norville experience teach anything?

That comment by Ann Curry left me feeling like she never really understood what it would take to succeed on the show... My guess is that by "groundbreaking" she meant "serious" and "compassionate" and short on the girly banter... that was a big mistake...

Are there any summer shows out there which have been unexpectely good, Pookie?

I just finished watching the first three episodes of "Episodes." I love it more than ever.. .It's on Showtime and it stars Matt LeBlanc as "himself." It's a great send-up of the TV industry...don't miss it...

Ann Currie wanted to host the Today show, so she lobbied for it, hung around when others took the job, and finally she was given her shot. She lost. If she stayed a newsreader, she'd be at today still. Sometimes you fly too close to the sun and your wings melt. You take that chance to move forward. It seems, though, that everything turned out OK for Ms. Currie, so we are not going to have another Conan O'Brien situation here.

the Conan O'Brien sitauation is all about how Conan reacted when NBC told him it wasn't working out.. Would NBC have given him more time a decade ago, when the network wasn't in such lousy shape? Maybe. But it wasn't and his numbers were not great. Frankly, I miss Conan from his days as the lead-out to "Today" when he was ambitious and edgy. His TBS show seems like an exercise in sleepwalking -- except when he goes on the road and then he's brilliant...

Since she got passed over this time, does that make her the next Ann Curry, when Savannah eventually leaves? Or will the Today show be just a memory by then (replaced by an all-morning Hoda and Kathie Lee drunk-fest, or something)?

I would watch an all morning Hoda/Kathie Lee boozy show. Seriously. It would be something different from 7-9 a.m. and I'm so ready for something different. These broadcast morning infotainment show are positively ossified...

There's really no chance that NPH will get to the Oscars, is there?

I seriously doubt that ABC, which always airs it, would allow it -- or that the film academy would even pitch it, given that NPH is not a big film star -- you know, like Chris Rock and Jon Stewart...

Pookkie, Thanks for not going to Alaska with Tara and Annie. We need you to watch so we don't have to! Speaking of which, how did Carmen Elektra do on "The Choice"?

You are welcome...

I really wanted to like this show, but the acting was flat, the living witnesses were boring and the level off excitement was sleep inducing.

It built on its "Modern Family" rerun marathon leadin, and wound up with 4.2 million viewers. That's the good news. In the same timeslot, "America's Got Tlaent" clocked nearly 11 million viewers, and a "CSI" rerun snagged 5.5 million. "Witness" also finished behindthat  "CSI" rerun among 18-49 year olds. That's the bad news...

According to Wikipedia, Ann Curry is of Cherokee, French, German, Scottish, Irish, and Japanese heritage. She was groundbreaking in that she wasn't a white woman.

I stand corrected. She is groundbreaking....and also beautiful, and wears clothes like nobody's business...

Don't forget Burn Notice on USA. Not the most realistic, but fun spy-thriller stuff! Bruce Campbell and Sharon Gless are worth watching by themselves!

Here are some suggestions, to the person complaining there's nothing on this summer...

Don't forget the brilliance that is "Louie".

And this Must See TV....

In his case I would change "Finally gets his chance" to "Demands Leno resign so he can have his chance" and I don't even like Leno btw.

Yes, Ann Curry did not demand Meredith be phased out -- Meredith decided she didn't want to renew her contract. Of course Curry was not in nearly so strong a position at that time in her "Today" career as Conan had been when NBC agreed to phase Jay out if Conan would only stay...

And how are her ratings this week?

The first episode of the night, at 10, logged an average of 586,000 viewers. The 10:30 episode -- Lifetime is running two back -to-back original episodes each week -- fell to 426,000...One week earlier, the hour long premiere had averaged about 726,000 viewers. These are not great numbers.

 

726,000 vioewers

Conan got dumped because Leno wanted to come back, not because his ratings were weak.

That is incorrect. NBC decided to move Jay back to late night, with a half hour show, and move "Tonight Show" with Conan hosting by half an hour because two things were happening: 1) Conan's numbers were not good. b) Jay's numbers in primetime were not good and the stations were threatening to preempt because it was hurting their evening newscasts. NBC thought that, with Jay back in late night (where, frankly, he belonged) it might provide Conan with a more compatible leadin -- make Jay, basically, Conan's warm-up act. Conan said no dice and the rest is history... He did us a favor because it would have been a disaster...Conan was better as host of Late Night.. he got all caught up in the whole sillyJohnny Carson/Tonight Show/ "legacy" thing and, what with NBC telling him to broaden out his comedy so as to attract more viewers, he choked... Here's another piece of the puzzle: Conan did better in urban markets while Jay, when he was king of "Tonight" was a flyover country guy. Meanwhile, Dave Letterman is an urban market kinda guy two. They were splitting the pie... NBC never should have dumped Leno the first time... They've never really recovered...

With all the angst about how lightweight the program is now after the first 30 minutes, I would remind people that the original host, Dave Garroway, often had the chimpanzee J. Fred Muggs on as sort of a co-host.

J Fred Muggs was the show's mascot... And speaking of  chimps, NBC has a break-out star monkey in "Animal Practice" -- Crystal, who starred in "Hangover II." I hope she gets nominated for an Emmy. Seriously.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I thought Chris Rock was one of the best Oscar hosts ever. That was the year that, to save the time it would take for the "B" crowd to work their way down the aisle and up on stage, they gave out the boring/technical awards in the aisles. Chris Rock, playing on the awkwardness and absurdity of the situation, said, "Next they're gonna give the Oscars in the parking lot. It'll be like a drive-through Oscar lane. You get an Oscar and a McFlurry and keep on moving." Classic.

He was great... Show did not do so well.. Ditto Stewart... Here's the thing about hosting a trophy show. You can be the funniest comic ever, but if you are pissing off the audience in the theater, it makes viewers at home uncomfortable... This has happened several times at the Oscars -- the comic/host was playing to his fans watching at home, but dying in the hall, and it made for pretty uncomfortable trophy show viewing.. nobody wants that...

Leverage. Falling Skies. Alphas. And most importantly, WIPEOUT!

Wipeout? Really? Meanwhile, Second News Flash (this has been a busy chat!): FX says last night's premiere of "Anger Management" is the most watched scripted comedy primetime series in cable history, excluding children's programming (I LOVE that qualifier!). Anyway, about 5.5 million people watched it -- a far cry from the 30 million who watched Ashton Kutcher's debut replacing Sheen on "Two and a Half Men" last fall, but I'm sure FX is very happy. They're also noting it was the most watched series premier in FX history. Then, the second episode, which ran immediately after the first, logged 5.7 million viewers. This is going to be a hit for FX. DOn't forget the network bought this show under the old 10-90 plan: if the first 10 epsiodes (two have already aired) hit a certain ratings threshhold, the network's on the hook for 90 more... Looks like Sheen has landed on his feet...

I think the "Outbreak" monkey was tons better than the "Animal Practice" Monkey. And how about bringing in Ceasar from "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" for a guest spot?

 Crystal's the Helen Mirren of monkeys -- there is nothing she can't do. Very versatile...

Where does one possibly hang a July 4th ornament?

I think it was being used as a centerpiece... honestly, my mind started to wander about the third time that "crafts" expert said something was "super great"....

Whoa, I had no idea about their divorce. Lends credence to the rumors that they had a 5-year contract...

isn't that the usual length of marriages in this country? Seems fair....

Johnny Carson was the best Oscar host of the modern era and I don't think he was ever in a movie. But he knew exactly how to play to both the room and the home viewer, which as you say is a requirement for success.

That was such a long time ago, and before demographic ratings ruled everything on TV, etc.. I hear Bob Hope was terrific too...

She's been all over my TV! I can't try turning on to the news about the Supreme Court decision before an "Exclusive Interview" with the mistress shows up. Can't we just call her a skank and be done with it?

Wow, that's cold....she's out plugging her new book, making the rounds like everyone else with something to sell. I missed her on "The Talk." Was it as craptastic as her appearance on "The View" ? That was truly wonderful television...

How's it doing in the ratings on NBC?

Well, better in the timeslot than ABC's "Glass House" for sure... This past Monday, "Ninja" averaged nearly 6 million viewers while the much-ballyhooed "Glass House" -- the one CBS spent all that money in lawyer's fees trying to squash -- only averaged 3 million viewers...

Do you think Uggie should have received that Hollywood Star? I thought it was ridiculous. A. She's been in one movie - why her of all dogs?. B. It's for people.

If you look at some of the people who've gotten stars over the past several years you'd realize that, in stealing every scene in one successful movie, she deserves to get a star. It's becoming a meaningless exercise, frankly. So sad...

Pookie, you are killing it today. I am sitting here at my desk trying to look like I'm working. But that's hard to do when I'm laughing so much.

Wait until you see Crystal as Dr Zaius (sp?) on this show about an animal hospital, doing her rounds... if she doesn't beat that Edie "I Don't Do Comedy" Falco for best comedy actress at next year's Emmy Awards, there's gonna be some kind of hell to pay.

Oh lord. Eye roll. What is it with people claiming to be Cherokee? Didn't she learn anything from Elizabeth Warren? (Sorry for political reference which, I know is not appropriate for this serious discussion of all things TV.)

Political references are okay -- I think we've already dismissed former presidential candidate John Edwards on this weeks chat -- and can't Ann say she's part Cherokee, if she actually is? I don't know, frankly.. I just thing she's beautiful...

(1) It wasn't a star on Hollywood Blvd, it was paw-prints in the cement at Graumann's Chinese Theater; and (2) dogs **do** have stars on Hollywood Blvd. (Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, at least). There should be one for Asta, if there isn't!

Oh, paw prints at Graumann's -- now THAT's a big deal.... I'll be sure to pay it a visit when I head to LA for Summer TV Press Tour 2012... I'm out of time. Thank you for joining me today. Have as cool a weekend as possible, and I hope you'll join me next week....

In This Chat
Lisa de Moraes
Pulitzer Prize winner, Peabody recipient, Medal of Freedom honoree -- Lisa de Moraes is none of these, but she is an authority on the bad direction, over-acting, and muddled plot lines being played out in the TV industry's executive suites. de Moraes worked for a decade as the television editor at The Hollywood Reporter, the entertainment industry trade paper, where she was routinely on the receiving end of more shouting phone calls from TV suits than Paula Abdul's manager.

When she upgraded to The Washington Post in 1998, a well-known executive producer called to suggest she have someone else start her car, but her trenchant writing (and refusal to use words like "trenchant") earned her the following praise from the brilliant, handsome media observer at Slate: "She writes like a wicked bitch." Wikipedia has called her "a noted television columnist," but they're often unreliable. It's pronounced "deh more ICE."

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